Shell We Talk? A Day in The Life of a Yale Geobiologist (ft. Maoli Vizcaíno)

In this episode, we crack open the microscopic world of marine plankton and deep-time data with Yale PhD candidate Maoli Vizcaíno. From dissolving 650-million-year-old Mongolian rocks to measuring microfossils the size of a grain of sand, Maoli takes us through her unexpected journey into geobiology and the surprising intersections between marine ecology, paleoclimate, and... sidewalk hammering?

We dive into what foraminifera can tell us about ancient oceans, how a tedious lab job turned into a passion for research, and why feedback loops and frozen Earths might just blow your mind. Whether you're team fieldwork, team lab coat, or just curious how life and rock shape each other, this episode will most definitely rock your worldview

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Transcript

Introduction and Guest Introduction

[00:00:00] Diya Gaur: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Art of Subduction. My name is Diya Gore, and today I'm here with 

[00:00:19] Maoli Vizcaíno: Um, Maoli Vizcaíno. 

[00:00:22] Diya Gaur: So, Maoli is a PhD candidate at Yale University, and she's currently Do you want to give an explanation of what exactly you do? 

[00:00:31] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yes. Um, I am a fourth year PhD candidate here, um, at Yale. I study foraminifera, which are marine plankton, and a bit of paleocenography.

Slash, I guess, kind of more modern these days, also modern like, like marine ecology. 

[00:00:51] Diya Gaur: Yeah. That's amazing. 

Maoli's Journey into Marine Ecology

[00:00:53] Diya Gaur: So my first question is like, how did you get into this? This is like such a niche and like fascinating field. So is there a certain experience or like? You know, just any event that kind of led you into what you do now.

[00:01:05] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yes, um, yeah, so I had, um, this was not a life dream of mine. I did not grow up dreaming of the ocean, aside from, I feel like, really regular, like, yeah, let's go to the beach, because it's vacation vibes. Um, I, um, you know, I went to college, um, I got into college. I went to college. That was like, kind of the goal was ultimately college.

And then I got there and I was like, oh, I need to, uh, figure out what I'm doing here. Exactly. So I took a bunch of intro classes as one does, and my freshman year, one of my professors would advertise. job opportunities at the end of her class. 

First Research Experience

[00:01:45] Maoli Vizcaíno: And, um, I applied, I hated my, oh, uh, this was my sophomore year actually, my sophomore fall.

So I hated my current job. Um, so I applied to work in her lab and I was just doing sample prep. So it was like, she had these rocks and I worked in the lab to, to solve them and pick out microfossils. Yeah. So I literally was just doing that as a job for like almost a year. And then I got a fellowship. a research fellowship and kept doing it like more seriously.

And so I think, um, not to, you know, start with the life lessons, you know, two minutes into the recording, but like, you really don't, there are so many people who are so amazing and know what they want to do their whole life and are super dedicated to it. And that's awesome. Um, and also though, you don't have to.

I didn't. And even my job, my first like research job, I got it because I was just working in the lab. She just needed someone to do the really tedious stuff. And I was like, I'm getting paid 15 an hour. I'm from Texas, which I mentioned to you before. So moving from Texas to Massachusetts, I was like, man, um, wow, 15 an hour, like I'll dissolve as many rocks as you want me to.

So. Yeah, anyway, I didn't know what I wanted to do and that job opportunity was literally just looking for a job and I ended up becoming more interested and working on that. And yeah, and so 

[00:03:07] Maoli Vizcaíno: that first project really kind of started me on microfossils specifically. And it was in my master's where I started studying the forams themselves and I've been doing that ever since.

[00:03:20] Diya Gaur: That's really interesting. 

Detailed Lab Work

[00:03:21] Diya Gaur: What was it that you initially did in the lab? Like, what was the more tedious stuff that you were just mentioning? Yeah. Sounds kind of fascinating, but Yeah, 

[00:03:29] Maoli Vizcaíno: no, um, it was, it was cool. It was, it was tedious, but it was cool. There was, like, enough steps to where it didn't feel like I was, like, you know, copy paste, copy paste, or whatever.

It was like, I had these rocks that she gave me, um, from the field. Um, her colleagues went to Mongolia to get these rocks. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yes. And so I would take them, I would wrap them in foil and squish them with a hammer. I would just like go out on the sidewalk and just smash them. And then I would put the pieces into like just a little plastic container and, um, dissolve them in acid for like however long it takes.

It took sometimes, it was like a couple days, sometimes it was a bit longer, or I'd like have to increase the concentration. And so once they were dissolved, then I would like wash the sediment. So, um, it's just like the really classic, like it all settles to the bottom. So you pour off and then like do the water on top.

And I had to do that several times. And then after that, I would dry them. So pour off as much water as I could and then just leave them to dry. Um, and then let's see, what did I do? Put them in, I would put them in like little like vials or whatever, and then put them on slides and then use a pipette to take out, like in water, to take out what I thought were fossils and put them on little slide thingies.

[00:04:54] Diya Gaur: Oh, wow, whoa, that's really cool actually, wait, that's really cool. So wait, how, I just can't imagine, like, those mussels must be really tiny then, right? Yeah, 

[00:05:04] Maoli Vizcaíno: really small. Gosh, I, I should, I should know. It's kind of a while ago. Um, I should remember, but yes, very small. Um, we were measuring them in microns.

I'd say sub 250. Sub 250. 

[00:05:20] Diya Gaur: Wow, okay, so those are really tiny then. Yeah, so was it like specifically or like just only the rock from Mongolia, or have you also like seen like rocks from other places, or? 

[00:05:32] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, so these ones, um, were from Mongolia specifically because of the age, so what we were trying to do was You know, find them to talk.

Oh gosh. Um, so these rocks were like 650 million years old. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And so they're in Mongolia is a great place to find rocks of this age. And yeah, so those were like really, really old. Really old fossils. Um, I, you know, through time have also moved more forward in time. Like my master's fossils were from the ocean.

So that was like drill core sediments, completely different process. They're not rocks. Um, so that's, that's great. Still kind of method of like picking out the specific ones you want, except with like, uh, they're like the fossils themselves are like little grains of sand. Um, cause these plankton, they make shells.

And so then when they die, the shells sink to the sea floor and it's just like sand. But they have specific shapes for each species. So you will know which one to pick, but they're so small. So you take a paintbrush, the smallest one you can, and sometimes you have to like even chop a lot of the little bristles off or whatever.

And then you dip that in water. And then you like just poke it, and then you put it on a slide, and the water acts as like an adhesive that sticks to it. 

[00:06:57] Diya Gaur: Oh, interesting. Okay. 

Interdisciplinary Nature of Geology

[00:06:59] Diya Gaur: So you're kind of like going both into like, I guess the more biological and like historical aspects of it? That's pretty interesting, honestly, like, I really love that intersection between geology and biology.

You know, I think I mentioned this a bit earlier, but I want to do something related to geobiology as a concentration, or like maybe just do undergrad research in the field, but you know, it's a new and like, or relatively new and emerging field, but you know, there's just so many possibilities with it, and I've mentioned this like quite a few times before on this podcast as well, like not many people understand that there's so many intersections between geology and like all these different sciences, and so it's really cool actually like You know, I think, um, I had this mentor who was in my, like, JJ Pickle research group at UT Austin, and, you know, he went on this trip to Antarctica, and he was telling me that he had this, like, field camp with, like, a bunch of like chemists, biologists, and like all these different types of people.

I'm like, whoa, that's so cool. Like, it's so interdisciplinary. I'm like, yeah, love that. So would you say like, you know, that more interdisciplinary side is like kind of what you went into the field like looking for? Or was there something specifically that stuck out to you about geology? 

[00:08:15] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, actually, this, yes, I agree.

That was really what drew me in as well. I feel like, you know, as a fellow Texan, you know, I'm sure that You know, you're extremely aware of like oil and gas and like that, that like lens for earth science, I think, um, going to college and I took, you know, like my intro geo class, um, it was called the co evolution of earth and life.

And I remember thinking it was so awesome, first of all, to like, learn about something and literally see it, see it happening outside. Mm hmm. You know, we, we, we know, we know in our heads, like, as much as we love to complain in school, you know, that, um, the things you learn in school are useful in like, some ways, you know, and it's like, okay, like, literal, these like, literal algebra equations are irritating, but I can kind of get it.

But it was like so obvious with the geology. I would learn about what rocks are, and then I would go outside and be like, Oh, I just learned what a granite was. For real, for real, you know, not just like I really loved that. And in that class specifically, um, I remember being like just so blown away by like just feedback loops.

We had a lesson on feedback loops, and this was actually related to my initial, like, my project in undergrad, which was during Snowball Earth. Transcribed Which, um, I don't know if you're familiar with, but, you know, in the Neoproterozoic, which is a very long time ago, the earth froze over and there has been a lot of research about was it, you know, like a hard snowball, was it kind of slushy, but still, it was still, we know it was cold.

Um, and my professor explaining how that would happen, this like runaway feedback loop of like, you know, it being cold and there's like ice and ice. is light colored, snow and ice is light colored, so it will reflect sunlight and warmth. So that helps more ice grow and reflect more, reflect more light and warmth and et cetera and onward and it'll just like keep going.

And, um, this was obviously a very extreme example if like the whole earth is frozen, but that really blew my mind. And I, and I liked the idea of like things being so connected and that, and that was even like with less of a focus on, on life itself. Um. And then, but I was also doing, you know, later on research on like life during that time and what that was, um, and what that could be like.

Um, so yeah, I don't know. It is, it is really nice. I really, that was something that really spoke to me for sure. I'm like, yeah, we are all, you know, in this together. Um, and also it's, you know, it is comforting too. I'm like, you know. 

[00:10:55] Diya Gaur: Right. 

Interest in Space and Geobiology

[00:10:55] Diya Gaur: Yeah, have you, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but I was just gonna ask, um, have you like maybe thought of like doing research that's kind of more interplanetary, like maybe how these Earth applications that we're kind of using now, like the models, and you know, just what we know about Earth and applying that onto other planets, like have you done research like that in the past, or do you find yourself interested?

You've been pursuing that in the future. Yeah, um, no, 

[00:11:21] Maoli Vizcaíno: no, I, I, I, it's been, it's been long enough that it's like, I do have, like, I do have, like, my strong, like, you know, silly opinions about, like, other fields and subfields, like, you know, we love to joke around. I was just joking with my friends today. I was like, Geochemists, like, can we trust them?

I don't know, you know, um, all in jest, of course, but, um, in terms of space, I don't, yeah, I don't really have much interest in, like, space or other planets. Um, I feel pretty full up on, like, the ocean. Um, I understand why people like it, for sure, um, but I don't. That's not something that calls to me. 

[00:11:58] Diya Gaur: Yeah, no, the reason why I asked that actually is because so this is going back to the UT Austin research I did, but I did, um, a one week like research kind of like Python modeling about like the ice sheets in Antarctica and you know, It's not exactly, like, biology related, but, you know, what I did was I took the geothermal heat flux of this, like, ice sheets that we're seeing, and so, like, on the topic of, like, glaciers and, like, ice stuff, I was like, hmm, that's really interesting, so, you know, this is, like, me making a lot of different connections to the same topic, but, you know, 2021, I went on this hike to Mount Rainier, and I, really funny story, but, Only brought one water one bottle of water up all the way to the top of like the hiking trail And so I realized like halfway that oh my god, my like water bottles like completely over But you know lucky for me.

I see that stream of Glacier water flowing down the hiking trail And so I take my water bottle and scoop it up all the water and put it in there and then I drink it I'm like Wow, this is some of the best tasting water I've ever had in my life. But for me, that's kind of where geology sparks. It's like the most random moment, but I was like, kind of sitting there and I was like, okay, so I'm drinking this glacier water, but what is the bacteria that might be in here?

Like, you know, this is obviously from a glacier, like it's going to be fresh. But you know, what if there's like some Hidden bacteria or like disease that is like ancient and like oh my goodness like I would love to learn more about this and so that's where my initial interest for you know that glacier type of stuff and like water based stuff was and then you know fast forward like three years later I'm like in a lab at UT Austin and I'm trying to see how geothermal heat flux has been kind of Changing what we know about the Antarctic and also the Western no, Southern Antarctic wait a Okay, no, hold on.

I'm all over the place. Western Antarctic ice sheet, so I specifically studied that, and then I translated it into the Southern, um, Mars ice cap. And so what exactly I was trying to find there was if the geothermal heat flux could have contributed to some things like, you know, how water is kind of like, melt, or how the ice melts into water, and then kind of applying that onto Mars through Python modeling and seeing if They have some type of heat flux in their, um, southern Mars ice cap, and then also kind of seeing if there's potential for water there.

And so, you know, that's kind of where geobiology kind of tied in for me. I was like, you know, so we want to do more interplanetary exploration, and you know, one major thing that we need to sustain life is water, and so For me, I find that intersection really interesting, like, fascinating, because one, we just need water to survive, but we also see all of these companies like SpaceX, like, NASA, they're trying to, like, get out there and they're like, yes, we need to find another place other than Earth that humans can sustain life on, and I'm like, yes, amazing, interesting, love that.

Um, yeah, that's kind of my story, and that's kind of why I asked that question, but, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:15:02] Maoli Vizcaíno: No, it's 

[00:15:03] Diya Gaur: Yeah, what are your thoughts? 

[00:15:04] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, no, I think, yeah, space, I think there's lots of, um, lots of reasons to be interested in space. I feel for space people, because it's like, it can be kind of hard to justify if you're not like doing that sort of like, specifically like, life on Mars or whatever, you know, like, I know some folks who's just study, like, it's more like Things just to know it, than like, because, you know, this is gonna be the next big thing for humans, whatever, you know.

Um, and yeah, I mean, I have a lot of respect for space people. I think it's a lot, you know, a lot of, you know, math and physics that like, Right. Yeah, that I'm like, I don't, I don't think that's something I could do. And yeah, spending a lot of time working on something that you can't, you know, No, you know, like you are like witness or whatever.

I don't know. Like that was something I struggled with, with my things from just like deep time, you know. And then in my master's, I did work more like a hundred thousand years ago, 170, 000 years ago. I was like, yeah, you know, 

[00:16:04] Maoli Vizcaíno: that's still like, that's still old. Um, but it seems a little more real versus now it's like my main data set that I've been working on here is still there.

Like, 2008 to 2020, you know, I'm like, yeah, that definitely happened, like, um, but yeah, so I think it takes, I think it takes a lot of passion to work on something that is so hard to literally grasp. 

[00:16:28] Diya Gaur: Right. Conceptual stuff is really difficult for me too, but yeah, for sure. 

Data Processing in Marine Ecology

[00:16:33] Diya Gaur: I mean, Do you do any, like, data processing in your lab specifically, and what does that normally look like, that data processing that you do?

[00:16:41] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, yeah, I'm, uh, yes, I'm very, um, computer based, um, especially at this stage. I mostly, I use R. A lot to make, um, you know, make my little figures and like, do like, my analyses and things. Um, I have, you know, a bunch of, you know, Excel documents that I have the same data in, in different, 15 different ways.

Right. Let's see. It's like, it's really, it's really wild how, um, how not, um, How to not technologically advance everything I'm doing. Like, I use this, like, really nice microphoto that takes extremely high res pictures. Like, each, each of these pictures is, like, almost a whole gigabyte. of like just like slides, um, that have like the forums on them, which I use to, you know, look at them and for my other projects that I'm doing, I'm going to be like measuring them.

So, um, you know, high res photos for that. Um, yeah, but honestly, it's just a lot of like computer stuff. Like my data set is really just one big Excel sheet. And I'm just, I'm just fiddling with it. Like, um, but it's nice. I really enjoy the flexibility, um, of where, like, where I can work. I can be like, I don't feel like being here.

Like, I'm just going to be like just me and my computer against the world. And yeah. And then when I'm in the lab, I'm taking pictures, but I'm almost done with that now, and so then I'll be able 

[00:18:06] Diya Gaur: to 

[00:18:07] Maoli Vizcaíno: be on the computer. Mhm. 

[00:18:10] Diya Gaur: So what's the step by step process for that? So you did mention like taking photos, but do you have to like upload that into your like computer?

Like how exactly does it work? 

[00:18:18] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, so um, the uh, microscope is connected to a computer, so I take them off with a jump drive, um, once I take the photos, jump drive onto my computer. And there I use ImageJ, which I don't know if you're familiar, but it is It is extremely, like, this is not, like, I'm pretty sure you could download it for free online.

Um, but it's like a program for images, ImageJ. Um, and I use it, and like, you can use it as a, like a ruler, essentially. And so, like, I have my scale bar on it, so then I just literally, like, click and I draw a line, and I tell ImageJ how long that line is, using the scale bar. And then I just use my computer to point and click.

From one end to the other and measure what I'm trying to do, and it will log it for me and then I export that into a CSV file and, and then analysis, let's go. Um, so yeah, it's, it's really, it's really, you know, it's really straightforward and a lot of like, What we do in my field is that way. Like, you know, like, the, the, um, what's the word?

Like, the paintbrushing, you know, you use that to pick. If you get really good, um, you can just use a clicker. Like, you don't even have to pick out the species anymore, you just look. That was me in my masters, I was just like looking in my microscope, clicking the number that I saw and then writing that number down.

Regular light microscopes, you know, they're small, they're like grains of sand, but you can see that in a regular light microscope. For some, some projects, someone might want to do CT scanning, like one of my friends is trying to look at pore size, and that can, that can get a little more intense. Um, if you're a geochemist, you can like, You might want to like dissolve them or like, you know, take measurements of like their isotopic signatures in the shells, things like that.

Um, but you know, it's, yeah, it's a lot of like people obviously like of all like ages and, and especially like, you know, as young as like people around my age. And as old as, like, extremely, like, wow, you're not retired yet. So, you know, there's lots of different ways to do stuff to kind of accommodate everybody.

Mm hmm. 

[00:20:26] Diya Gaur: Yeah, for sure. No, like, two things, actually. So, one, I'm just thinking of, like, all of this data processing must need, like, this huge, like, supercomputer, right? Like, do you guys have that on campus at Yale? Like, I assume that you guys do, because this is, like, terabytes of information that you guys have to, kind of, File and sort through, so.

[00:20:44] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yes, there is a high powered computing. Um, depart, not department, whatever, um, office or whatever at Yale. And some of my friends use the clusters, especially if they're running like long term models. Um, I do not, my dataset is big, um, but it is workable. I did have to buy a new laptop that was, I was like, what's the highest, you know, I have my like one terabyte, like high Ram, whatever that I got, but also Mac, because I'm a huge.

I'm, I'm trapped in the Mac loop. 

[00:21:15] Diya Gaur: Apple ecosystem 

[00:21:17] Maoli Vizcaíno: really got me. So it is a Mac, um, which, you know, is a, is a hot take for me to have, but I, I, I'm, the things I'm doing is definitely fine for that. Um, but yeah, so that's, yes, there is high power computing. Some people go, go crazy on that. Actually, this guy in our last year, he graduated very famously had the title of like the highest, like.

user of the cluster because he did like these huge like models of like mantle physics or something i don't know like geophysics and all he did was on like Modeling stuff on his computer, he like, very fan it was, it was some, some insane stats on his carbon footprint from just that. Wow! So yeah, no, it really is something.

Oh yeah, 

[00:22:06] Diya Gaur: that's very interesting, yeah, no for sure. And also you did mention retired, retired people, and on that note, I was also gonna say that There's a couple of people that I have interviewed for my podcast as well, and these people are like well into their like late 70s, early 80s, and I'm asking them, so why exactly are you still doing geology?

And they're like, you know, I just love going out in the field, and a lot of the times what I've heard from many of these older people is that I can count more of the countries that I've, um, no, I can tell you all of the countries that I haven't been to rather than the ones that I have been to. That's really interesting, and also I feel like that's a really good point to like, love geology, just because of like, the travel that's involved.

And, you know, I know this kind of varies on de varies on what exactly you're doing in geology, if you're doing more field based stuff, or more lab based stuff. Um, but I think that aspect is really fascinating, like, working with stuff from all across the world, really, because that's what the Earth entails.

Field Work vs. Lab Work

[00:23:06] Diya Gaur: So, I mean, do you go into the field very often, or do you just, like, kind of do work in the lab and more of the processing stuff behind the scenes? 

[00:23:16] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, so I do not go into the fields, that was not something I did. I was interested in, um, when I was going in telling my professor about that too, like I did field camp in college because I was like, you know, if I want to go to grad school, it's probably better to kind of have that out of the way if needed.

Luckily it hasn't been needed. Um, in my fields, our version of field work is probably a lot more going on boats, like going on research cruises. And those are very, you know, people always love to go on those very like prestigious to get on one as well. Like. And it's like what you were mentioning earlier with like a boat will have like one micropaleontologist, one sedimentologist, you know, like one, and it's like, you know, people there, you're like representing like your whole field on this boat, you know, and you have a job to make this work.

And it's like a really beautiful, like little ecosystem on there. Um, I personally never had any interest in being on a boat for, you know, many weeks with a lot of like pressure. They're all very expensive. People will work, like you're, you work 12 hours and then you're off 12 hours and you work and it's like, It all really matters.

And, and, you know, that sort of purpose is extremely inspiring to some people. I would fold under that pressure. Um, and also I do know that I get very seasick, which, you know, but I'm like, 

[00:24:35] Maoli Vizcaíno: I, I have gone on boats and it's never, but yeah. Um, for me, my, the bulk of my travel comes from conferences and workshops.

And then also, um, gosh, like there's, there's all sorts of reasons. I think there's something for everyone. Um, again, for, you know, I don't know if the masses PSA, it's like, like hiking and camping are not your jam, which they're not. I didn't grow up doing that. And, you know, now I, You know, um, there's still, you know, there's still places for you.

Like I've, I've done so many like great things. Like I've done workshops in, um, in the UK and in Germany. I've gone to conferences in Italy and various places here in the U. S. as well. Um, I went to Bermuda my first year. Um, I went to go, like, just learn how to do this method that she was trying to do for one of her experiments and to bring back some of our equipment that was left there before the pandemic because we had some, you know, some back and forth.

Our lab things over there. Um, I've gotten to do a lot of really cool things. And yeah, so I think, I think that's a really nice, um, definitely nice perk. I think, you know, also all the, all the amazing people that you meet, it is a kind of, in my opinion, slash others as well, probably, uh, uh, not a low point, a slightly negative point, how, like, how much, like, in the academic path, you're expected to do something, like, really different at each stage, like, how people say, like, don't stay at the same institution for, you know, For grad school that you were in undergrad, or your postdoc, all this stuff, so like, you have to move around so much, and like, that is really hard, um, but it, it does mean it's like, I know people all over the place as well, from people who like, were in my lab, um, as a postdoc and undergrad student, who are like, somewhere else now, or for me, like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, And again, I'm a fourth year PhD student, like I am still training and I have been a part of four different institutions.

My undergrad, my master's, I did a year working as a research assistant after my master's, and then like now at Yale. And from that alone, like I know people all over the place. And you know, the opportunity to do work where other people are, is there as well, like, I've had invitations to go, you know, visit friends in the UK to collaborate on some stuff.

Um, uh, I have, my advisor, like, when I first got in was like, are you interested in, you know, going to California, maybe, and like, working on stuff? Like over there and like Catalina and stuff and you know, there, there's, there's always if there's one thing another scientist is going to do is find a reason to travel for sure.

Um, so even if you're not like out in the fields that happens and like, yeah, and I think the older folks, that's the thing too. Um, I do think that the fields now it's like, there's definitely, you know, more coming to grips with like, um, what they call like parachute science, I think. Like, coming in to do research or take samples and go somewhere else, it's like, you know, you're expected to, you know, collaborate with people from the place that you're going, you know, it's like, I don't need to be, you never need to be the specific person studying something, you know.

Right. And I think that's a really nice thing, too, and I think it'll be, like, really beneficial to, like, you know, helping every, like, the whole field become more equitable. It's, like, you're going and you're bringing in folks from there, not just as, as, as techs or as, like, you know, guides or whatever, but, like, being a part of the research project, you know, there's gonna be more experts on the place than you.

[00:28:19] Diya Gaur: Right, yeah. 

Academic Path and Moving Around

[00:28:20] Diya Gaur: So, why do they say that you shouldn't, like, stay in one institution? Like, why should you, like, be moving around specifically? 

[00:28:27] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, um, I think it goes to, um, one, like, showing, you know, that you can, like, other people, like, want you. It's expanding your network, expanding, yeah, the, the, the people who know you, everything, no matter what you're doing in life.

Yeah. is about connection. 

[00:28:50] Diya Gaur: Connection is right. It's about who you know 

[00:28:51] Maoli Vizcaíno: and who you know and can help who other people knows or whatever, wherever you're at. It shows like people, like, I don't know, I think that part of it is definitely, this is like a lot more of my interpretation, is like people, I think there is a lot of like still expectation of, of suffering in the fields in all sorts of ways.

Like it is, it is. Like, my first project was with data that someone else gathered and didn't have to work with, 

[00:29:20] Maoli Vizcaíno: you know, and I'm like, that is still valid, you know, and that, you know, that has, you know, people have opinions on that, or people constantly going to the same place to collect their own data and doing analysis, and I'm like, yo, like, Things would go so much faster, like, you don't have to start at point zero every time something happened, you know?

But it's the same thing, another way of suffering too, it's like, like, the, if you didn't have to work so hard for it, and that's part of it too, it's like, oh, you stayed comfortable, you know, you stayed with all these people you knew in a place that you had been for four years, like, what's that about? Like, you know, um, and like, they say it's like for you, you know, for your growth, you know, it's like, you spend time here to learn stuff, you'll learn new stuff, You go somewhere else, that'll be different people to learn, different methods to learn, like, out there.

But yeah, I mean, it's a lot. It sucks. Um, um, yeah, my undergrad was in Massachusetts. That was, that was on purpose. I wanted to be as far away from Texas as possible. I was definitely like, uh, I need to leave right now, um, when high school is over. So that was great. But then, um, Uh, my master's it was hard to go to because it was in Delaware and my sister was in Brooklyn and I was like, I don't want to be this far from you, but it was still, it was three, three hours trip, you know, still made it work for the, but then I was a research assistant in California and I was like, this sucks.

I was like, there's nothing out here. I don't have any family in California. Also have any friends. Cause I was in the Bay area and not like, You know, LA or something. Like, I didn't know I'd be there and it was fine. I was like, it's just one year. I was like, uh, you know, whatever. I'm 20, I'm 24. Like, I'm just going to do some crazy early 20s shit.

Oh, excuse me. I'm going to do some crazy early 20s things and just go across the country with my 6, 000. For no reason. It was also a job at Stanford and I was like, I was not getting any jobs. So I was like, let me go be a research assistant at Stanford and see if people start taking me seriously. Um, so, but yeah, so that was horrible.

And then the pandemic happened. And so I was like, I was like, there's no way if something else happens, I'm going to be this far from my family, unable to get to them. So then when I was applying to. PhD programs. I was like, bet I'm going to the Northeast or I'm staying in Texas. So I actually applied to UT Austin.

And in the end, I was deciding between Yale and UT Austin. I really know. Um, and it was like a, it was down to the wire. I was just like, okay, you gotta make a choice. And I ended up being close to my sister. And yeah, so I don't, I don't, gosh, I don't remember what I started saying. Um, oh, oh, it was like why people tell you to do that.

It's like, it worked out for me to where I did like all these things and it like, it wasn't this like huge sacrifice or the huge like, I need to stay in this place, but I'm being pushed to do something else. At every point I was kind of like, I don't really know what I'm doing, so it's fine. But I know that now, like, after this, like, I have very strong opinions about where I want to be.

Really hard to see, like, you know, postdocs that you know and love, they're in your lab for a couple years, and then they just have to go somewhere randomly. I'm like, why? Like, anyway, I don't know. All I have to say is that I'm like, Yes, there's like, benefits to moving around, knowing people, but I'm like, there's also so many benefits to not, and like, there's already so much credibility as an academic, like, come 

[00:32:34] Diya Gaur: on, like, come 

[00:32:34] Maoli Vizcaíno: on.

Anyway, I don't know. 

[00:32:37] Diya Gaur: No, I actually totally agree with that sentiment, like, for me, I I wouldn't mind staying in state, but at the same time, going out of state seems really intriguing to me, because one thing is like, I feel like when you kind of go out of state for, at least under God, it's more like you're getting out of your comfort zone, like you're getting a bit more comfortable with like, being uncomfortable, so it's like, for me, I've like, Applied to seven different schools so far, and I think only one of those are in Texas, and that one's UT Austin.

But, you know, especially with geology, there's so many places that you can take it as an undergrad. Like, I know University of Oregon is a really good school for geology. I know Even in Hawaii, they have really good schools if you want to study like the volcanoes or just like the landscape there. And also UMass Amherst is a really good school for geology as well.

So there's like many different options and you know, we also have like Colorado School of Mines and all those different options and that's one thing I really love about geology is that you have so much flexibility where we're with where you want to go. Even end up wanting to go study something like more specific you can always like apply international like There's not a lack of geology programs But what there is a lack in is just overall like I will say maybe just outreach I don't think many people understand that geology is more than rocks like when I tell someone who's Not knowing anything about like the geosciences in general, I tell them, Oh, I want to major in geology as an undergrad, and they're like, oh you want to study rocks?

I'm like, no, it's not just rocks, oh my goodness. So I feel like, I think the branding of geology matters a lot too, and so I feel like if we kind of Branded geology to be a bit more Reflective of what it is as a field. It'll get a lot more interest, especially in the younger people Because like like I said before what many people don't realize about geology is how interdisciplinary it is A lot of people choose like to opt for the environmental sciences or you know something along those lines But you know not many people like realize that there's just so many different connections you can make like With practically anything, like, the Earth relates to almost everything in one way or another, and so it influences a lot of different things, like, if you want to study people, you can obviously go into something which studies both, like, how the environment, like, or just, like, the overall geology of a place affects, like, human behavior, there's just so many ways that you can take it, and, you know, I think that's a really good point, and, yeah.

[00:35:06] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, no, I You're totally right. And I think it's, um, you're also right. And like your choices and stuff and everything you said about that. I think I am more a, I'd say in terms of like, oh, go out there and do it. Um, you know, and like, this is something that's like good for you and whatever. I'm definitely team like go away for college.

Um, I think that like, you know, cause like coming back, um, I do think, you know, like early twenties, like, yeah. You are, like, flexible and, like, having that sort of silly, goofy experience. Right. Something that I'm like, you know, did I hate it? Did I hate California so much? Yes. But, um, was it, like, is it such a funny thing for me to randomly drop, like, lore to people?

Like, oh, yeah, when I was in California for nine months, they're like, what? I'm like, yeah, isn't that crazy? And I have, actually, after this, I'm about to Zoom with a couple friends from California. Oh, sweet. Some of my favorite people are still over there. Um, but anyway, but yeah, so I'm like, you know, team that.

Um, I think you're right about geology as well. And UMass Amherst, I went to Williams. So, um, the Western Mass vibe, always down, always down. Try to make people do that. No, right, for sure. But yeah, no, it's um, I don't know. I think that It's, it's good, it's good advice in theory, but it gets used a lot. Um, you know, you make kind of people feel like they have to do this stuff that is like, really 

[00:36:30] Diya Gaur: good.

Right, right. Yeah.